SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I will post my story soon. I know it’s needed to give context, but I wanted to start with unbiased opinions on this topic. I had a false start here on SI almost a year ago. I thought I had moved on, but thoughts keep coming back.

I’ve always felt sure of myself. Even when I made a bad decision, business or personal, I changed parameters, updated my choices, and moved forward. When I learned of my WS’ betrayal, which was in a glorious fashion that I’ll post soon, I had absolute clarity. I had been betrayed. The love of my life and mother of my children was now the enemy. She didn't even seem like a person to me. Divorce was obvious, and never speaking to her again unless kid-related was also obvious. This attitude helped me through those times.

I know for some people infidelity is a dealbreaker. What I’m stuck on now is if my decision was so absolute due to arrogance. No one, and I mean NO ONE, in my circle suggested reconciliation. Even the kids didn’t. Maybe a little in the beginning, but they backed off fast. It took me six months to realize no one had pushed for it, other than my WS. Now I’m wondering if this was caused by some extreme part of my personality. Again, I know infidelity can be a dealbreaker for some, and that seemed to be me, but I’m stuck wondering if that was an automatic response based on an issue with me rather than thinking it through.

I mean no offense, but I read these SI postings about BS’ reactions, falling to the floor in crying fits. I imagine looking down at them and not being able to understand. I want to, and I can pretend to if I view it like a child dying. Otherwise, I’m confused by it, and it makes me think there’s something wrong with me that I didn’t get close to that. Am I so cold, and will the day come when I point that coldness at my children and they suffer? I’m not on any spectrum. I have emotions, and I express them. When this all happened, other than anger, and a brief attempt to make sense out of all this intellectually (when I first posted on SI), there haven’t been other feelings.

These are probably questions for an IC. I tried a couple of appointments, but I felt like a brick wall with their questions. I thought I would try here with those that have been through it to get insight.

I don't think so I honestly think it was a complete deal breaker for you as it had been for me. I couldn't R. My xWS was not reconciliation material and neither was I. I named called, was passive aggressive and more after D-Day. I just couldn't let it go and it infected me from the inside out. Now I don't know if I would have reacted the same if xWS was remorseful. I'm not sure. I am a grudge holder and that doesn't bode well for R.

A great book to check out that will define and explain your reactions as a normal response to this kind of abuse and trauma is Cheating in a Nutshell.

I do not regret leaving and filing for D. I do however regret some of my actions and reactions post D-Day and also staying in limbo too long.

Friend, you and I seem to be the polar opposites in this regard. I have spent a year deeply wanting to R, and it’s been a miserable year and it ain’t over yet. Who is to judge our genuine feelings to this traumatic event? If you regret D, is your xWW still interested in trying to R? Or do you still feel good about your decision and you are just peeking under the hood trying to understand what makes you happy with your decision? I’d say if you have what you want, you are in a better spot than most, including me.

Arrogance? Or a firm line in the sand? i was in false R for a year until I drew that line. You just got there first. Looking back, it was always a deal breaker for me. I actually fought against my instincts in trying to R due to my own fears and abandonment issues. But R would never have worked for me, even if he had been the perfect WS. (He was not.)

Now what you may be experiencing is regret— should you have tried to R? Maybe that’s the pain that you did not allow coming forward.Maybe you sealed that off from consideration back at DDAY and now it is bubbling up a little. It seems that could also be the brick wall you felt in IC- you did not want those "what ifs" to prevent you from moving forward. And all of that is okay. You might try IC again and allow yourself to be fully vulnerable (which is not easy) and see what you feel.

I’d encourage you to explore that— stuffing it down does not help long term. And remember that recovering from an A takes 2-5 years, so it is not surprising that there are still things you are dealing with. It seems our psyches only let us process so much at a time so as to not overwhelm. Your system may be stable enough now to allow processing of these thoughts without overwhelming.

I don't see arrogance or regret. Correct me if I'm wrong on the regret part.

And yeah, every BS reads this and thinks "lucky bastard! Feeling it sucks."

I think what you're asking (of yourself mostly) is why don't you FEEL the way most others felt after betrayal.

I don't have the answer but I find it interesting.

Some things you might ponder:

Do you feel love?

Did you feel it for your wife?

Was spouse/marriage just another piece in your life picture that you put in place without an emotional / love component?

Are you easily able to jettison other people from your life without any pain or grieving?

Does it feel like a loss to you when a relationship ends?

Have you ever grieved the loss of a person (death included)?

I'm no therapist but it might be that you don't attach emotionally to people (perhaps your kids aside). That's a good thing to explore in therapy. Something might be blocking you from deep connection. So you protect your heart from it.

I think it's admirable that you are wanting to explore this so you can have (continue to have?) good relationships with your kids.

Thanks to everyone for your responses.

Crazyblindsided
"Grudge holder" describes me well. If someone betrays, I cut them out. This is my first experience with a betrayal of this magnitude, but I seemed to follow the same script.

If you don’t mind me asking, what were the regrets you mentioned?

InkHulk
I followed your story, and I’m so sorry for your situation. Each twist and turn that comes up with what you’re going through has got to be exhausting.

Regarding how I feel about the decision, it felt like there was no decision. It was inconceivable to me to stay with someone after that kind of betrayal. All I could think about was being free of it. Maybe I’m just now peeking under the hood. My XWW became a non-person in my eyes, and I had to get away from her. That was all I could think of. I can barely look her in the eyes now. That’s not indifference, so maybe I’m still processing?

BearlyBreathing
I was certain it was a firm line in the sand. I’ve cut friends out of my life for much less. I remained confident with my divorce for a while. Realizing no one other than XWW pushed reconciliation has made me question this. That doubt is shaking me.
Maybe this is the wall you mentioned.

TheEnd
Going through your questions, I definitely felt love for my wife. I felt like we had created our own world, and it felt special. I saw marriage as a part of life, so that was kind of a plan, I suppose, but it was wanting to be with my XWW (years ago) that inspired me to get married.

Your use of "jettison" is interesting. That’s exactly how I feel about someone when they betray me. I cut that person out completely. I want no contact, even if it was someone I cared for before. I let them in. They betrayed. Now they are gone. It was always that simple for me. I always prided myself on that, but now I’m wondering if it’s some twisted defense mechanism.

TheEnd

I meant to address this:

And yeah, every BS reads this and thinks "lucky bastard! Feeling it sucks."

I don’t want anyone for a second to think I feel lucky. I would feel obscene if there’s any implication of that here given all the suffering this site holds. Instead, I feel hollow, like I got a disease and had to cut that part off of me as quickly as I could, and I took the whole leg with it. The infection stopped, but I feel the absent part of me. I thought this would fade over time, and I guess it kind of did for a little while, but this recent stuff has me confused and backsliding.

There is nothing easy about this. You were married for 17 years. If you didn’t question yourself that would not be normal. However think about what you wrote. Absolutely no one aside from your WW thought you should reconcile. That says something. When I finally decided to divorce 5 years later and everything came out, probably 80-90% thought I should forgive her and move on. When I said "thought" I mean taking me out to dinner and pushing me. My kids especially. I think we probably have some similar personality traits. I’m a pretty black and white guy. Could be pretty ruthless. They knew I wasn’t a guy to take betrayal lightly, yet still pushed. They felt my EX deserved the second chance

Could the reason that they didn’t push wasn’t about you not being able to get past it, but rather she didn’t deserve you or a second chance? It’s not because you have some personality disorder.

In my opinion anyone who commits adultery deserves to lose their marriage. It’s the price they pay for what they did. If however if the BS decides to try again, it’s a gift. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t forgive, or reconcile, but if you do it’s not because they deserve it, but rather the BS sees a reason to and thinks their lives will still be better with the WS in it.

I also have the feeling if you stayed we would be reading a post that said, I stayed even though deep down I knew I shouldn’t. That was me BTW for 5 years.

Everyone questions their decisions. Even after all this time divorced I still think about if I should have stayed. It’s natural. Especially in a long term marriage. Don’t beat yourself up

Ever

There are other things that might come into play. Some BS may still be in shock when they post and really want a rewind button. Some BSs can have PTSD or C-PTSD, while others may be codependent or trauma bonded. The betrayal trauma can try your brain so you really don't know what to think. Lots of brain chemistry involved.

Others know it's a deal-breaker from the get-go.

"Did my arrogance drive my choices?"

Yes, it's possible.

So I have been reading here a long time. I've had many years of IC, and I am completely enthralled with human beings in all their messy complexities. None of this may appeal to you, then just disregard.

In my opinion--and there is zero research behind this, just a lot of reading and analysis--there are dynamics that play out in marriages, and some of those dynamics come up repeatedly on SI. Here is my best unscientific guess:

50% of BS had a marriage that catered to or overly valued the WS, whether due to illness, weakness, selfishness, narcissism, codependency, etc. The BS made a lot of selfless choices and was the model spouse, while the WS always operated as the Taker in the marriage. So they took more! The BS feels like, "But I did everything for you!" These BS almost always want R, at least at first, while these WS maybe do or maybe don't change.

45% of BS are the responsible, mature parent-type partner who is always redirecting the weak, naive child-like partner that had poor boundaries and couldn't say No. These BS are often dynamos, and these WS are often very remorseful because they never wanted a D. Some of these WS don't even know how they got here. These BS often blame the AP because they see their WS as somewhat weak and too easily manipulated. These BS are on the fence about R but try, and these WS are often trying very hard and desperate to R, but the BS's respect for the WS is gone and this damages things.

And the last 5%...this group is predominantly made of male BS who have strong personalities. (I've not seen a woman with these traits here.) They dominate in their business lives and have always done well for themselves, and they do not have any sign of low self-esteem. They saw their wives as trophies, but they also feel their wife did pretty well in the M, too. It's all working according to their life plan. Except she is not feeling so great about herself because...idk. He gets all the accolades? He has the busy, important life? Something like that. Usually this female WS is ridiculously sorry and knows how wrong-headed she was, but her BS never, ever gets played or disrespected by anyone. Ever. So done. Divorce. Cut her off. He literally turns his emotions off and walks away, sometimes finding ways to brag to her about all the younger women he now has. She stays a mess for many years, is even suicidal. NOT blaming him; he has a right to handle it how he wants. The kids ALWAYS side with him, which is its own interesting facet. I can name you posters that fall in this 5%, and they are celebrated here as heroes. My personal feeling--super, duper unscientific--is that anything that feels like winning to them is confused for happiness. They immediately pursue winning in the game of betrayal. But are those really the same thing? Not my life, so not for me to say. These BS do not come across as "happy," just strong and on top.

I suppose you can see where I think (only an opinion) you fall?

Let me tell you a little story. Different website many years back. WW writing many posts over about a year. She had two kids with a professional soccer player--not in US, but he was very famous and successful. They had two great kids, about 17 and 19 when she cheated. Her BH travelled, of course. A lot. She had stopped trying to follow him because it was a lot for her. She was lonely and getting older. She had always gotten a lot of attention for her extreme beauty, but she felt it fading. It was a vulnerable time. Some guy--I think one of the kids' music teachers--started paying her a lot of attention. They went to watch a band with other friends, and she drank too much and slept with him. Once. She was immediately remorseful and ashamed. Told her BH as soon as he got home. His reaction? Silence. Anger. Extreme anger.

She cried a snotty, ugly cry as he got up after a while and grabbed his bag. He immediately told the kids and their families, and everyone hated her. He divorced her right away. When she was writing these posts, it was five years later. She had not dated anyone, just pined for the H that she had really, really adored. You could tell. She was very remorseful, only blamed herself.

But there is more. Even though his outward language was, "I'm done with you," he continued to visit her, kiss her, hold her, and make love to her. Every couple months. Sometimes she could feel his tears on his cheeks. She never asked but knew he was probably sleeping with others, but he did not get a new gf. They still loved each other so much. It was honestly the saddest story I have ever read because they were both suffering not being together. I mean, you tell me why he would not give her a chance? It seems ego is the only answer.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with how you handled yourself. You do you! And you've not said much about your WW, but I would assume from my super unscientific research that she is a mess and desperately wants R. Do you still love her? If you could secretly be with her and nobody would know, would you choose that? If so, then please explore if there was maybe another path that allowed happiness again, not just winning by cutting her out.

I have to seriously commend you for your introspection to even pose this question! I can't recall anyone else ever asking this (I assume because, as you said, this type of person doesn't question their decisions very often). I think it shows a lot of intelligence and maturity to look at yourself so honestly. I don't know if there is any way to go backwards (or even if you should try), but IC--maybe a different one--can really give you some clarity on these questions you are asking yourself. Best wishes! I hope you find happiness. You deserve it.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 3:34 AM, Thursday, July 20th]

I follow a woman whose ws cheated yrs ago and then again and although they stayed together for a while his modus operandi was to always cheat and he did and then left her. She is still in agony yrs later. That is her. You are you. If you like your life then that is all you need. None of us face life in the exact same way. When you were done you were done. Nothing wrong with that.

Speaking of my own experience part of the pain I have been processing for years and now have just started treating through some IC is breaking that boundary. For years I thought it was her that caused the pain. Well that initial shot, her sleeping with my friend was the big blow, me taking her back was against my own moral code. Only to get dumped a few months later because she was not strong enough to put in the work. As a Bs in R it is really about us being willing to live with someone that hurt us. It is a lot lonely, harder work than any ws will experience. We get to regret leaving, we get to regret staying, we get to break our own moral code because of another’s actions. We regret being cheated on, then we get to regret being mad about it. A WS just needs to stop being a selfish human, and that is quite often not enough. You put someone in a wheelchair and you get to walk, are things ever equal again? No. Not speaking for you but maybe your regret is not regret at all? Maybe It is just good old grief that your future was ripped away from you by another’s poor choice, and your brain is just trying to fill the hole so you do not get hurt again. You made the right choice, because unlike the WS you had no choice. I hope you find peace.

I doubt that it was arrogance.

People like me who did the "pick me" dance and promise to change to satisfy their WS are often overly dependent on their spouse for love and support. When we suffer the trauma of betrayal some people immediately identify the source of that trauma and push it away. Others cling to their partner because they are their sole source of support, they can't conceive of what has really happened, or they just can't imagine having their world turned upside down. Or all of the above.

How you discover the A may play a role. If you start out with limited evidence and decide that you want R when you believe that it was just an EA, sometimes the slow drip, drip, drip of trickle truth never provides the impetus to shift you off of that position.

I often wonder if I had caught my WW red-handed in her PA if I would have had the courage to go straight to D, as I always said I would in those circumstances, or at least the had self-respect to require that she be the one to beg for R.

I don’t want anyone for a second to think I feel lucky. I would feel obscene if there’s any implication of that here given all the suffering this site holds. Instead, I feel hollow, like I got a disease and had to cut that part off of me as quickly as I could, and I took the whole leg with it. The infection stopped, but I feel the absent part of me. I thought this would fade over time, and I guess it kind of did for a little while, but this recent stuff has me confused and backsliding.

Apologies. My attempt at a little humor didn't land well.

Sounds to me like you are capable of love and attachment. A hard line in the sand isn't a bad thing at all. You know who you are and what you want or will tolerate. That's a good thing.

I wonder now if your grieving has been delayed. You cut off the limb. You steel yourself against pain / regret somehow. But that grief doesn't really go away. It's just in a box somewhere in your heart.

I guess what I'm saying is you don't have to regret your decision. It was right for you. But perhaps you need to allow yourself to grieve it. A therapist might be helpful in unpacking those long stored away feelings.

IDK, but it's seems very odd to feel what you describe. IMO, being betrayed brings immense amounts of anger, grief, fear, and shame. IMO, it's probable - though not certain - that you're suppressing a lot of feelings.

If you are suppressing feelings, it may be arrogance. I think the only way to find out what you're doing is to talk with an IC-type person to get IRL feedback.

*****

I think there are 2 types of arrogance. One type says, 'I'm good at what I do. I know a lot, but I don't know a lot more than I do know. I certainly know there are lots of other very capable people around, and I'm sure glad there are expert, arrogant people who know things I don't.'

The other type says, 'People who don't know what I know have little value except as tools, and I know pretty much everything that anyone needs to know.'

Which are you? Or are do you mean something else by 'arrogance'?

I bet it's your personality, and there's nothing wrong with that. My mom is a lot like you. When people hurt her, she cuts them out of her life. She stopped speaking to her brother and sister for over a decade. A good friend violated a boundary; Mom unfriended her in every way and didn't look back.

A lot of people think that personality tests like the Myers Briggs are hooey, but I think they can be surprisingly accurate. My guess is that you're either an ISTJ/ESTJ or INTJ/ENTJ, meaning that you are a thinker rather than a feeler, and find it easy to make snap decisions without second guessing them. If that's the case, it's just who you are. (My mom is an INTJ.) If you're interested in that, there's a quick test that you can take online. Google "16 personalities" and it'll pop right up.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 5:47 PM, Thursday, July 20th]

If you don’t mind me asking, what were the regrets you mentioned?

My regrets were that I was not emotionally healthy and handled my reactions to his abuse and A's very poorly. I had a revenge affair (super dumb idea) after discovering his 2nd A. I allowed his A with MOW to break me and ended up having a mental breakdown and attempt at suicide. My mental health made it very hard to parent my kids the way I had previously to D-Day. I was nasty to my xWS which was not like myself. I regret staying in limbo so long. My xWS was never remorseful, diagnosed NPD by his therapist (so I basically had been mentally and emotionally abused all through the M), and a serial cheater.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 5:59 PM, Thursday, July 20th]

I would second CBS's book recommendation. I read it long after I had chosen to D, but it helped me greatly. It put words to my feelings and gave me permission to feel them. Prior to that, I thought something was wrong with me.

Now IMHO (and with absolutely no research and stats on my side), I do think that there is a subtle and implied bias towards R in popular circles, in as much as people feel you should at least give R a shot before choosing to D. Choosing to R and giving it a shot/time, create a bias towards R.

I chose to try to R in order to be able to say that I tried everything before torpedoing the family unit. The problem with this thinking is that by calling D, I am the one responsible for the end, and not the WS.

I have a tremendous, even unhealthy focus on justice and fairness. Add to that, my biggest trigger is disrespect,it does not bode well for betrayal. As far as personality goes, I am an advocate. So when I told my WW that I was done, she was not surprised and told me that she always knew it was a deal-breaker for me.

There is nothing wrong with having clear boundaries and sticking to them. Going forward, mine are now much clearer and I don't think I would dither in the face of future betrayal.

Thanks again for responses. I have responses to each poster.

WaitedWayTooLong

That might be the case about people not suggesting reconciliation. At first, I didn’t even notice they didn’t. I was so absolute in my view of this, and I wanted to get past it fast. Because it was outed very publicly with key details, I didn’t have people asking for information, just providing support. I didn’t feel any doubt about my choice, just rage. If I think about it, if anyone had suggested reconciliation (other than my kids), I imagine I would have responded angrily towards them and a big WTF round.

Did they see something about me that they knew made it impossible? I suppose I am suggesting a personality disorder, or some arrogance in me that makes me cold. Maybe this is all just pride, and that feels wrong as a reason to end a marriage. That makes me feel severely flawed. That’s not a lesson I would give my kids.

I read a lot of your history and posts. May I ask why you tried at all for the five years between d-day and divorce? I’m not questioning your choice, just wondering where your mind was at then compared to where it is now.

Leafields

I’ve been thinking more about that. TheEnd’s use of the word jettison stuck out with me. That’s how I treat anything I view as betrayal. Is that just a way to avoid thinking about it? I see her as the enemy, not with indifference.

OwningItNow

I enjoy your theoretical take on this. Regardless of my reasons for being here, I also find human psychology fascinating. Looking at your categories, maybe I’m more in the 45% BS bucket on our relationship, but other than my XWW’s self-esteem issues, I never saw her as weak, or childlike. She just has this vein in her that came up from time to time. For work, I’m definitely in the 5% category. I didn’t see myself as that in the relationship before the betrayal. I became that afterwards.

Feels I’m Jekyll and Hyde. I take relationships very seriously, friends and romantic, would do anything for each of them. I’m a "help a friend hide a body" kind of person. When there’s clear betrayal, I am done with them. I walk away and never look back. If they touch base years later, I remember exactly why I cut them out and remind them of it.

Seeking2Forgive

Thanks for your post. I wish I could understand how you felt at the time of d-day. My new doubts have me wondering if there’s something wrong with me keeping me from doing that.

I really want to know, was there a point as you were working through reconciliation where you became very aware of that dependency and it made you question the entire relationship? That question feels silly after typing it. Let me say it another way, did you have an about face moment from the pick me dance that made you see everything differently?

TheEnd

Thanks for clarifying the humor. Makes more sense, and is funny. Honestly, I felt weird posting this topic because others are so actively suffering, and I’m bitching about suddenly feeling funny a year after d-day (my attempt at humor ). Truly though, I felt almost sacrilegious posting here.

Delayed grief might be it. Maybe a denial, which would be worse, right?

Sisoon

I haven’t really processed other feelings about this. Cutting my XWW made it seem like what’s the point. That’s the approach I’ve taken with others in life. I can’t say I thought about doing that. It just felt natural. Maybe that’s some kind of subconscious pride? I don’t know.

On your question, I think I’m more of the first type you laid out, however, I define my arrogance in this post as being a non-negotiable, maybe pride-driven thing, pushing my decisions with my XWW. I was so sure about divorce. The hint that my decision could have been driven by some character flaw everyone saw but me is what’s giving me doubts. Does my pride need to be so absolute that even the suggestion of it causing a problem is cracking all of this?

SacredSoul33

Thank you for the example of your mom. Not talking to family members for over a decade is something I understand. What do you think is happening inside her regarding the pain they caused? Does it come out in other ways?

On the personality test, it’s been a while since I took one, but, I remember being between feeler and thinker. See my Jekyll and Hyde comments. I feel like a feeler in relationships. When there’s a betrayal, I flop to the Hyde side and cut them out. Even if my d-day approach differs from others, I feel great empathy for the posters on SI – mainly BS, but, as a BS, I suppose that’s expected. I have often tried to imagine what a WS feels, not as successfully.

Crazyblindsided

Wow, I’m so sorry. That sounds like a terrible sequence to experience. It’s amazing all you’ve survived though. Have you been able to, or are even interested in, having new relationships since?

Justsomeguy

I identify with your sense of justice. I know affairs are about the WS, but they feel monumentally disrespectful. I thought I might feel responsible later for pushing D so fast, but it didn’t come. Instead, I felt embarrassed about not realizing the A earlier. I think there was also embarrassment about my XWW’s issues causing this when I thought I was addressing them with her. I guess that’s pride again.

I really need to post my story. As I starting prepping it, I got very uncomfortable and it’s slowing me down. I’m sure that’s pretty telling all by itself.

FAD,

You mentioned that you didn't understand why some people were curled in a ball and didn't know what to do, so I wanted to provide some examples. My XWH is a diagnosed covert narc, so I had to work through the issues with trauma bonding and intermittent reinforcement.

Either way, there's no right or wrong, just different.