SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Pogre —

Am I going overboard? It's been a year, exactly a year, and this is all hitting me like it was last week. Am I being "normal," or am I being unreasonable? Am I putting too much into dates on a calendar, or is this what most of us go through for the first antiversary?

Unfortunately — you are 100 percent normal at this point.

Your brain is in full on protection mode, because you’re still processing it all.

I think I mentioned it in another post, end of year one sucks. Twelve months in is enough to evoke all the pain, anger and sadness, yet, also enough time to understand you have more work ahead. Knowing you have more healing to do can be daunting, because it gets harder to imagine better days ahead.

I think I looked forward to the numb part of the healing, the plains of lethal flatness, as I was simply exhausted and didn’t want to feel anything.

My wife’s four year A went from EA to PA exactly two weeks after our wedding anniversary, so the dates in my brain were etched in stone. I have to say, there are a couple triggers now and again about the timing of it, but I have completely forgotten about so many other calendar reminders. It does fade, or certainly did for me.

That aside, I don’t think I felt ‘good’ about things across the board until the start of year three.

You start building new days and new memories to focus on as you heal, but man, it takes too long!

Sisoon, Bigger, and Oldwounds - thank you all so much for your input. It really means alot to get this helpful feedback.

Like I said, I put her through the wringer yesterday. She cried. Hard and a lot. I had tears and snots all over my shirt sleeve at the end of it all. I felt bad, and not bad at the same time.

I'm not trying to just make her cry or hurt her just for the sake of hurting her. At least I don't think I am. It bothered me to see her so upset, but at the same time... well, you know. I've been hurting like never before for the last year. She caused this. I'm not too terribly broken up that she got as upset as she did yesterday, but putting her in tears wasn't really my goal. My goal is for her to really understand the depth of the pain I'm in. The torture of the memories, both real and imagined, that keep rattling around in my head still a full year later.

It gives me a sense of relief to see I'm likely not going overboard or struggling more than I should be at this point. Staying is hard. Reconciling is hard. I get it now. I can't stress to others enough, especially those brand new to it, just how devastating infidelity is. I think almost everyone underestimates it. I know I sure did until it was thrust into my lap.

How dare you buy an Aiwa stereo system!
I swear there are just some things that need to be bannable offenses…

OhItsYou wrote:

How dare you buy an Aiwa stereo system!

I swear there are just some things that need to be bannable offenses…

Speaking as an audiophile I think I agree with this statement, but since it's Bigger I think he can get away with a slap on the wrist along with a promise of buying a better system with at least 2 subwoofers and an eq for proper low end support...

[This message edited by Pogre at 3:02 AM, Wednesday, April 8th]

It is crucial that you and your wife are going through the pain (of both) openly.

Two factors:

People develop and deepen their connection through adversity. The mere fact that you are both suffering through this, her for the pain she sees she caused and you for being betrayed, bonds you.

Second and probably most important:
Talking openly about the betrayal, even its most sordid aspects while excruciating for the Bs and in a minor part for the WS,has a killing blow effect on the affair.

Because it breaks the intimacy between your wife and the other man. It was their thing, their intimate time, you were cast out.
Revelation rips its furs out. Kills that intimacy as the betrayal killed yours when it happened.

Yes it is disgusting, yes it is repulsive, yes it is a torture for you and shameful for her.
But exposed shit stops smelling, begin decomposing, it dies.
The moment the wayward comes completely clean, there is no more "our thing" is no longer intimate or cute in any way. Is naked, in the open light, where you both can see it’s twisted deformity and the disgust that you feel will be felt by her and likely shared since she is healing.

It doesn’t resurrect your relationship that was before, that is dead. But it kill the cheating relationship that murdered it. And that also dies, fantasy and imaginary romance replaced by a brutal truth.

It was he lowest meddling in a can of worms.

If you ever done something you aren’t proud of, this is a magnitude greater.

Once both relationships and their intimacy are dead, you are even. Not exactly a blank slate, but you leveled the Plainfield. Not just the ruins of your story, but now the ruins of the affair lie next to it.

Probably there something new can be rebuilt.
A new intimacy that may spawn something else along the way.

You are not verbalizing this, but your emotions told me this story.

Well… In my defense I never again entered the apartment again, and she kept the Aiwa…

Only redeeming feature of that "sound-system" was the double cassette setup with dual-direction play. Great for copying compilation tapes…

My brother went there for me a few days after d-day and gathered my stuff. Forgot some stuff but if I had to rank what I lost I guess the box of 80’s LP and the IKEA pots would rank above the AIWA…

If you recognize that her medication played a role in her affair, I think it’s something you should be reminding yourself often.

This was not the wife I knew and loved. This was the wife I had on a medication known to cause major personality changes.

If you believe she would not have done this prior to the medication, then you need to remind yourself "this was not my wife who made these choices".

And hopefully the impact will lessen. It definitely will over time (as it did for me).

Storm,

It is crucial that you and your wife are going through the pain (of both) openly.

Two factors:

People develop and deepen their connection through adversity. The mere fact that you are both suffering through this, her for the pain she sees she caused and you for being betrayed, bonds you.

Second and probably most important:
Talking openly about the betrayal, even its most sordid aspects while excruciating for the Bs and in a minor part for the WS,has a killing blow effect on the affair.

Because it breaks the intimacy between your wife and the other man. It was their thing, their intimate time, you were cast out.
Revelation rips its furs out. Kills that intimacy as the betrayal killed yours when it happened.

Yes it is disgusting, yes it is repulsive, yes it is a torture for you and shameful for her.
But exposed shit stops smelling, begin decomposing, it dies.
The moment the wayward comes completely clean, there is no more "our thing" is no longer intimate or cute in any way. Is naked, in the open light, where you both can see it’s twisted deformity and the disgust that you feel will be felt by her and likely shared since she is healing.

It doesn’t resurrect your relationship that was before, that is dead. But it kill the cheating relationship that murdered it. And that also dies, fantasy and imaginary romance replaced by a brutal truth.

It was he lowest meddling in a can of worms.

If you ever done something you aren’t proud of, this is a magnitude greater.

Once both relationships and their intimacy are dead, you are even. Not exactly a blank slate, but you leveled the Plainfield. Not just the ruins of your story, but now the ruins of the affair lie next to it.

Probably there something new can be rebuilt.
A new intimacy that may spawn something else along the way.

You are not verbalizing this, but your emotions told me this story.

For someone whose first language isn't English you sure do have a colorful vocabulary and a way with words. I really like your poetic use of metaphors in this post.

It evokes these images of our already wounded marriage being besieged and decimated by some foul, putrid, pestilent, fetid creature. But somehow something inside of it rose from the rubble and is fighting back. Not only fighting back, but discovered the foul creature's weakness.

I love the framing and the thought that through our shared grief we're bonding, killing the affair together, and rebuilding something stronger and more resilient from the rubble of the devastation that was left behind. We're not giving up and on the verge of delivering the death knell to this awful creature, to ensure it nor none of its ilk ever returns.

It starts ugly, but is ultimately a positive message of hope and healing. That was creative and beautifully written. Thank you.

The1stWife,

If you recognize that her medication played a role in her affair, I think it’s something you should be reminding yourself often.

This was not the wife I knew and loved. This was the wife I had on a medication known to cause major personality changes.

If you believe she would not have done this prior to the medication, then you need to remind yourself "this was not my wife who made these choices".

And hopefully the impact will lessen. It definitely will over time (as it did for me).

I am keeping that in mind as a factor, but at the end of the day she still knew it was wrong. She didn't do a very good job of it, but counting all of the auto deleting messages and voice chats over Facebook messenger leading up to the PA, she did hide what was going on from me for well over a month. I had no clue how often they were talking, nor the extent of what it was they were talking about.

That said, that person appears to be gone now. She did change. There was a meanness there that I'd never seen before and she's shocked at her actions. But then, they always are, right? However, that drug does have a reputation for twisting people and screwing up relationships. I've seen many stories in those epilepsy groups. You can't throw a stick without hitting a warning about taking it.

She's not just back to her old self now. This is a new and improved version of her who's prioritizing me and our marriage above everything else. She dumped some friends and spends all of her time with me now. There's a deeper humility that wasn't there before. She listens to and appreciates me now. By "listens to me" I don't mean "does what I say," but actually hears what I say. Our communication was awful. We're learning things about each other that after 28 years together we both should have already known.

I've no question that she's almost as devastated as I am. She loves me more than she's loved anyone or anything and she's been very consistent for almost a solid year now with no sign of just going through the motions or biding her time. I'm becoming convinced it's real, lasting change. We really are building something new.

I just wish it hadn't happened. We could have gotten here without the heartbreak and betrayal. I know you know the pain. It's awful. Our marriage wasn't where it should have been tho, and that part wasn't all her fault.

I appreciate the reminder and the understanding, tho. It really wasn't her. Thank you.

[This message edited by Pogre at 1:26 PM, Wednesday, April 8th]

Pogre,

Don’t beat yourself up about expressing your feelings, you knew it was going to be a rough month so be gentle with yourself.
Much of what you mentioned saying to your W is the very same things I say but personally I think you’re kinder than I am.

You have every right to feel everything you feel, tears, snot and slobber will flow, I’d say if they didn’t then there’s something wrong. Don’t suppress anything, get it out.

You mentioned putting too many dates on the calendar, i think a lot of people do, then dig those memories out a year or 2 or 3 or 4 or however long you want to keep bringing them out of the vault and reliving the pain. Maybe one day you’ll go in to open the vault and laugh, maybe one day you’ll be enjoying life too much to even remember to open it.

It starts ugly, but is ultimately a positive message of hope and healing. That was creative and beautifully written. Thank you.

You know I use words to paint emotions.

Because there’s nothing I have to say that each one of you already doesn’t fully know.

The answer is inside yourself, and it’s is the wrong one!

Half a joke, we know the right answer but we often rationalize it it giving it the wrong meaning.

Emotions have no words but they have a language. That’s where I poke my posts at.

The love you feel for your wife, the anger you feel for the worm, the pain you both feel. Those are all the right answers for your unanswered "why".

All that matters is you, her, here and now.

You met again free of bullshit.

Nobody likes to take a bath in the nasty swamp, but hey leeches are just worms, they leave a scar, but is a memento of never bathing again where it smells of rot.

See yourself as the guy who had the balls to go get his girl before she drowned in the quicksands.

You both need a few more shower but the stench will fade.

Always happy to cheer you both up 🔝

(And to drown you in walls of text)

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 8:47 AM, Thursday, April 9th]

Yesterday, my wife said she wanted to talk. She brought up rough spots in our marriage over the years, of which there were plenty. The times she's had seizures and I didn't want her to drive, but gave in after her 3 month waiting period of being seizure free was up. The many arguments we'd gotten into over stupid things. The disagreements and hard times.

Then she apologized. She apologized for taking advantage of my kindness. For pushing my buttons when she knew I was right. The unnecessary arguments that could have been resolved with just a little compromise and she was too stubborn to do it. "For being so evil to you sometimes. You stuck with me through it all, and I repaid you by taking advantage of your trust. I pushed you to your limits sometimes and I shouldn't have. I'm so sorry and I swear I'll never take advantage of you ever again. I treated you badly and you didnt deserve it." I can tell she really means it. She's really been thinking about this stuff. She's been doing a lot of digging and soul searching.

This is entirely new for her. She's never been this introspective, self reflective, or humble in 28 years. I felt like a weight was lifted off my shoulders, just her acknowledging her part in the many issues we've had over the years. She admitted to pushing my buttons and being intentionally stubborn when she knew I was right.

Not that I was always right, or that I always handled those situations with grace. Far from it, but there were so many times when I was pushed to my limits and we had explosive arguments. Her wanting to drive after a seizure has always been a really sore spot for both of us. 3 months seizure free is the legal amount of time in our state to drive again, but when she was having 3 or 4 a year with no way to predict them, I just didn't think it was safe. I was in a constant state of anxiety every time she went somewhere, and all she cared about was having her freedom. Consequences be damned. Then 2 accidents later I put my foot down and that's when Mr wonderful entered the picture.

We're entering a new phase in our marriage. One where we talk and we actually listen. Both of us. There's compromise now where before there was none. I was kind of floored that not only has she genuinely been thinking about this stuff, but actually verbalized it and showed humility and remorse. Not just over the affair, but over all of our past issues.

She got me. She said a lot of the right things yesterday, unprompted, and she said them sincerely. I feel appreciated and very loved, which is something I sorely need right now. She's not changing just to keep the peace and avoid rocking the boat. She wants to change. She wants this marriage to work. She wants me to know she loves me and that I'm her top priority. Now, and for the rest of our lives.

She told me that as long as I stay with her and promise to be her chauffeur she won't push or argue over driving ever again. Even if it means she never gets behind the wheel again. We've been making it work for the last year and a half and I've not wavered once in my committment to take her to work, the store, to visit her parents and friends, nails, hair, or whatever. We do everything together now. She appreciates it all now. She sees it now.

I didn't even know it, but I really needed to hear that yesterday. We had a great day capped off by an amazing night. Every night has been amazing for the last year now, and there's no sign of it slowing down. She's been sitting with me through every meltdown over the last couple of weeks. Rolling with the punches and refusing to leave my side no matter how difficult it is.

BTW, she hasn't had a seizure in almost 6 months now. That's pretty significant. I had said before that if she could go a year without one I'd loosen up a little bit about the driving. She told me if I'm still not comfortable with it even then that it's no big deal. She's gotten used to it and said she'd miss me being with her everywhere we go. It's more time we get to spend together, and she values that now more than any desire she has to drive.

Yesterday was a good day, a very good day.

The way she is coming around of her own volition is a very powerful sign, and thus no wonders it is ensorcelling to you, but it is a good kind of spell.

I wish not to say anything because it is a more complex thing, but I sense her seizure will benefit too from the amazing changes she is allowing herself into.

Iam not surprised they are getting more rare, I secretly wondered what impact her new presence may have on her body.

Mind matters more than we think

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 2:51 PM, Sunday, April 12th]

Oh, by the way. Good stuff man.

Your woman got it and you too

Iam not surprised they are getting more rare, I secretly wondered what impact her new presence may have on her body.

Mind matters more than we think

I've thought about this a lot, too. Stress is a well known trigger for seizures. We've been under a fair amount of it lately because of her affair, but a lot less in a lot of other ways. She's let go of a lot of selfishness and stubbornness and we have much fewer disagreements in general. Hardly any, really. The fallout from the affair sucks really bad, but life has gotten a lot more pleasant and easier in a lot of other ways. We actually enjoy being around each other now.

I am not surprised and even if it is very likely the data on research about this is lacking or non existent, medically and scientifically does make sense, as a based hypothetical at the very least.

You know very well how betrayal changes brain and body chemistry, both in the victim and in the cheater.

That’s likely valid for the unresolved issues that lead to it.

Doing the work and healing also changes your chemistry to a similar extent.

To which degree I have no idea.

Guess you will see it empirically by living it.

Maybe nice surprises await you and your girl from now on.

And you will have learned something special.

Sure, it will be just anecdotal.

But on the other hand, who gives a shit?

Maybe people like me who are anal into researching and the scientific method.

But for you and your wife this counts less than a butterfly fart.

And I have a feeling here, but is irrelevant.

You guys keep it up and check in in a year or so, we shall see 😉

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 5:00 PM, Sunday, April 12th]

Her wanting to drive after a seizure has always been a really sore spot for both of us. 3 months seizure free is the legal amount of time in our state to drive again, but when she was having 3 or 4 a year with no way to predict them, I just didn't think it was safe. I was in a constant state of anxiety every time she went somewhere, and all she cared about was having her freedom. Consequences be damned. Then 2 accidents later I put my foot down

First let me say that I’m very happy your reconciliation is going well, and that you both are learning and growing. I really am very happy for you both.

——————————————

Now let me get a bit harsh. What you wrote here is a massive sore spot for me. I’ve been a physician for a while now, and I work acute care including emergency, trauma, and critical care. What you are describing infuriates me to no end.

Do you know how many people I’ve seen killed by drivers who had a seizure and lost control? One of my most traumatic cases was trying to resuscitate a 6yo girl who’s mangled body bled out after she was killed by a driver who was non-compliant with their anti-epileptics and crashed into her mom’s car on the highway. Do you know the sound a mother makes seeing her daughter in that condition? It tears through your soul.

There is no difference - NO DIFFERENCE- between someone driving with an unstable seizure disorder and someone driving drunk. They are both gambling with other people’s lives. They always weigh the risk of themselves crashing, and never contemplate what it might be like to kill someone else, to end a child’s life, to end a parent’s life, to maim someone for life, to cause a devastating neurologic injury. If someone wants to be irresponsible with their own life I don’t really care, adults can make that choice. But nobody has a right to put other people’s lives in danger - knowingly so.

People who drive purposefully without being cleared by their Neurologist can fuck all the way off. Selfish assholes the lot of them

Sincerely,

Everyone who works trauma

——————————————

Now let me calm down and apologize for calling your wife names, but people who do what she did are universally reviled by those of us who’s job it is to try and undo what they've done, and to see what happens to innocent people who’s lives are forever changed.

That being said, it seems like she is truly trying to change and that’s all anybody can do. I have a hard job, my nurses and techs have a hard job. We see people die regularly, it hurts everytime, but infinitely more when they are kids, and unmeasurably more when it is intentional or reckless trauma that causes it. She is exceedingly lucky. She may never be lucky again. I hope she understands the gravity of that decision.

I’m sorry for going off. I debated just closing my browser and walking it off. But then I figured I had a professional responsibility to tell you exactly what people in the medical field think about people that willingly gamble with other people’s lives. I can still hear her screaming. It’s burned into my soul. So a lot of this is me projecting, but it’s still a legitimate issue.

[This message edited by justsendit at 6:07 PM, Sunday, April 12th]

I can still hear her screaming. It’s burned into my soul.

All I can say is I thank God for medical staff like you who endure these horrific realities and keep going back looking to save as many as you can. God bless you and your team!

I wanted to collect myself and offer a few more thoughts on a more positive and self-aware note. When writing what I did above, I don’t want anybody to think, that I’m sitting over here imagining myself of some kind of paragon of morality and righteousness. I have been exceedingly lucky in my life. When I was a teenager I definitely drove when I shouldn’t have, and it’s by luck or the grace of god or whatever you believe in that I didn’t hurt someone else.

As so many on this board know: who you were has repercussions, but you aren’t who you were, we are only who were are now. I am not that person now. It really sounds like your wife has recognized her issues, and is working hard not to be that person anymore. There is really nothing more you can ask of a person.

It sounds to me, like your wife has matured from a selfish, reckless and emotionally immature person to someone who is cognizant of their shortcomings, willing to face them, and desiring to improve. In my estimation, that is some of the highest degree of courage, integrity, and wisdom that a person can achieve. So I really want to write this post to say that I think your wife sounds like she’s becoming a wonderful human being. It sounds like she is facing her shame, and has the strength to grow. That alone is rare in people. Rarer still in waywards. It’s part of the reason that I have so much respect for the waywards who have stuck around this forum, face the abuse they see, and help others through this pain.

People are imperfect. The best we can do is recognize that and actively choose to grow. It sounds like your wife is doing just that. So I think, if you can also move forward, you two have such a wonderful chance at a legitimate reconciliation. From what you’ve written, I think your wife is someone who is likely going to be deserving of trust, and someone who will protect your relationship moving forward. I hope you’re both able to heal and move on, because it sounds like you really do have a good marriage now.

I’m sorry for going off earlier, but I also feel like I needed to say it, for all of us who suffer from the decisions of others.

Best of luck to you both.

All I can say is I thank God for medical staff like you who endure these horrific realities and keep going back looking to save as many as you can. God bless you and your team!

Thank you! We aren’t martyrs, but we carry heavy burdens. I carry all of my failures in medicine with me each day, like a troop of ghosts. Many of the things I’ve learned that are of real value, I learned by accidentally hurting somebody. So I may not be a wayward, but I’m no saint. The best I can do is look at myself honestly, and actively work on my issues while being completely transparent.

Just,

Hey I know, I can relate. I know it’s mentally taxing even when you succeed in resuscitating someone, when it fails is just eating you within for everything you described. Lucky I never had this trauma with a little girl like you do, but I can just figure…

From what I know Pogre I am sure he is in the same page as he putting his foot down was playing a role into his personal tragedy.

From what I know about his wife, the fact that she finally faced this truth alone is a significant step forward and sign of growth.

One of the key factors of her betrayal was indeed the affair partner with seizures making a move on her promoting the driving ignoring the risks, which was making him shine in that moment compared to Pogre who was "cutting her wings".

She realizes this alone now. Nobody doubted the risks for her life and the life of others, but her issues at that time.

And she won that ghost now.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 7:08 PM, Sunday, April 12th]